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Fox News Live
with David Asman
David Asman: …Also asking questions about a group of Muslim leaders who met with the President, some of whom were accused by various publications of speaking in the past in favour of organizations which are terrorists, organizations like Hizbullah, like Hamas etc. And question like whether this was the right thing to do and meet with individuals who have met such individuals in the past, terrorists in the past.
Well, Usama bin Laden of course trains terrorists. He issues fatwa which are these Muslim legal orders and he encourages his followers to murder Americans all in the name of Islam. Is he a true Muslim or is he a heretic. One who is in a position to know is Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani. He is a globally renowned Islamic scholar. He is also the Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America.
We are very fortunate to have Shaykh Kabbani with us today. Shaykh Kabbani, so good to see you. Thanks very much for coming in.
Shaykh Hisham: Thank you David, Thank you.
David Asman: How is it possible that Islamic clerics, some of the Mullahs who are surrounding Usama bin Laden etc and other Islamic scholars such as yourself have such profound disagreements in the meaning of Islam?
Shaykh Hisham: You know Islam is a religion of peace and it is traditionally it goes back to fourteen hundred years of Islamic tradition and Islamic mainstream. So at the beginning of the century, they become a new sect that is becoming more extreme in their views and more violent and more radical in their opinion. And this has been Usama bin Laden and many other people who are being indoctrinated and they cut and paste from the holy Quran, take pieces from here, take pieces from there, and build them up without recognizing any more these authorities in Islam.
David Asman: Well, at the risk of doing the same thing, I picked out a couple of passages from the Quran myself, one in particular speaks against suicide. And I’ll read it for you. It says, “Do not kill yourselves, God is merciful to you, but he that does that through wickedness and injustices shall be burned in fire [The Quran, 4:29]. Now it seems to say if you commit suicide particularly suicide bombing attack, you’re going to go to hell.
Shaykh Hisham: That’s correct. They cut it and paste it. They don’t take the complete concept of the Holy Quran. The holy Quran is a complete concept, it’s a complete religion. You cannot take part of it and then understand it the way you like. There must be a hierarchy in Islam. It cannot be that doctors of today or businessman of today speak on behalf of the Muslims. There must be a clergyman. There must be a complete authority. Like in Egypt, you have the biggest Shaykh of Egypt, you have the biggest Shaykh of Saudi Arabia, you have the biggest Shaykh, the Grand Mufti of Lebanon of different areas. So those who doesn’t have this convention, has no way to discuss Islam or else its all in the hands of these, naïve people or uneducated people about Islamic religion.
David Asman: Now Shaykh Kabbani, we heard from a number of Islamic scholars last night, they were on 60 minutes. They, first of all, condemned terrorism. Now that’s kind of easy. Its sort of a easy way out. Everybody can condemn terrorism, even Yasser Arafat and other people who perhaps in the past have used terrorism. That’s easy. What obligations do these Islamic leaders have beyond simply condemning terrorism ?
Shaykh Hisham: First of all, we have to say if they are Islamic leaders or not. These clerics who appeared on 60 minutes, are they considered Islamic leaders or not. Might be one of them I consider Islamic leader, but some of them may not be Islamic leaders. And when they speak, when they say ‘we condemn terrorism’, they have to act on it. They have to tell their people to define who is terrorist organization or not. We cannot be sympathizer for terrorism.
David Asman: Just to put a fine point on it Shaykh, what you are saying is you and other Islamic clerics and leaders have to name names. You have to say this person is supporting the terrorists, this person is a genuine Islamic scholar.
Shaykh Hisham: Of course, that’s for sure. Or else you will be throwing accusations on every…all Muslim scholar. We have to separate the good Muslims from those who are using the religion, without knowing what they are doing. So these clergymen, these clerics, these Muslim leaders, they cannot rally, they hold demonstration in front of the White House and support organizations. These will jeopardize the whole Muslim community. And that’s why I stood up two years ago telling people…please Muslims, please know that there must be something coming wrong that it might affect us as a Muslim in the United States.
David Asman: Now Shaykh Kabbani, we should mention that you were warning all of us about Usalam bin Laden for years now, you’ve been warning people about that. Is Usama bin Laden who has been issuing these fatwas, which is as best as I understand, it is kind of a like a ruling of Islamic law, is he entitled to?
Shaykh Hisham: First, he’s NOT authority. The authority has in every Muslim country, there is a religious affairs ministry for the Muslims. There is a complete system for the religious affairs for the Muslim, for the country.
David Asman: [interrupting] So he’s violating Islamic law by issuing these fatwas.
Shaykh Hisham: Of course, because who recognizes him as an authority? He studied business. He studied economics. He didn’t study Islamic Law. And many Islamic scholars from inside the United States and from outside the United States are controlling the Masajids today. In some of these masajids are business people or doctors, they have no back information or ideas or right rulings about Islam.
David Asman: Well, forgive my ignorance about Islam. But in Roman Catholicism, for example, people can be ex-communicated if they go against the rules. Is there a similar method that can be used to totally isolate Usama bin Laden since he violated Islamic law. Is there a way to ex-communicate him from the Islamic religion?
Shaykh Hisham: And that’s what I think Saudi Arabia is doing now. They have exiled him from the country. So they have ex-communicated him already. And some other countries Egypt, they ex-communicated all these terrorist organizations under Islamic religion that are practising terror here and there. So Islamic Jihad, all these organizations have already through the authorities, already they have been ex-communicated.
David Asman: Well if that in fact has happened and of course, Pakistan, supposedly an ally of the United States, which is an Islamic country. Nevertheless, Pakistan has been supporting the Talibans. Many people say the Talibans wouldn’t be in existence if it weren’t for Pakistan’s support. Why is Pakistan and other reasonable Islamic countries supporting these folks who support terrorists?
Shaykh Hisham: When this sect began to flourish at the beginning of this century and became more stronger in the fifties and in the sixties and in the seventies and now in the eighties became more narrower and more narrower and more violent, that time they invented for them out of the mainstream Islam and the traditional Islam, what we call it today, a new sect in Islam. So of course in Pakistan, many have adopted this sect and they have become supporters to such a kind of narrow opinions and narrow interpretations of the holy Quran of the Prophet’s Hadith.
David Asman: So Shaykh, it goes back to the question, how do you win back the hearts and minds of those thousands…may be millions, of young Muslims who have been drawn to this like a fly to the flame. How do you win them back into real Islamic tradition?
Shaykh Hisham: I think there must be a very good coalition, must be coalitions between the Muslim and Arab countries, mainly the Muslim and Arab countries to come and bring their religious authorities on Islam and to begin educated the real Islam, the traditional Islam which is not being taught now and the people, they have to raise the economic situation of these countries. Because poor people always run in order to get some money in order to live. Now we know that Pakistan and many other countries around the world, people are very poor. So whoever have the money can win their heart. So in this way, they know that they indoctrinate them into this kind of sects by giving them money ad by giving them the scholarship to study in their system.
David Asman: Shaykh is it too late to win them back?
Shaykh Hisham: No, its not too late to win them back because …I don’t think they are majority of Muslim, they are the minority of Muslims. There are 1 billion and 2 hundred million Muslims or one and a half billion Muslims around the world. And you have these people 1 millions or five hundred thousand or 2 million, it doesn’t mean anything to Muslims.
David Asman: Finally Shaykh, a question that concerns a lot of folks here in the United States, is it possible, is it conceivable that perhaps these groups, these terrorists groups and these folks who as you have said, have distorted Islam, may in fact represent the future of Islam.
Shaykh Hisham: …Not to our understanding and not to our belief, because the majority of the Muslims will come against them now after this attack on United States, the attack on our country. The whole Muslim world is going to call up against these kinds of people to bring them down.
David Asman: Let us hope you are right. Shaykh Kabbani, we thank you so much coming Shaykh, we hope you come back soon.
Shaykh Hisham: Thank you, thank you.
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